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Thread: Flipping a figurine should put it on its side, not its head

  1. #1

    Flipping a figurine should put it on its side, not its head

    Characters in games can be killed, KO'd, stunned, etc. Typically in a miniatures game they will either be removed from the table (already implemented :P ) or knocked over so they are lying on their side. This is pretty much not possible with TTS right now: you can only rotate along the vertical axis. You can throw them around until they've fallen over, but can't control which square they are in, and they revert to upstanding as soon as you pick them up.

    The solution right now is to flip them; this stands them on their head in the square they are in. Works fine from a semantic point-of-view, but it looks dumb as hell. At the same time, I can't think of a game where you'd actually want to be able to stand a figure on its head (as it disobeys physics, for one thing). So: change the flip mechanic on figurines so that it toggles between standing and lying on side, without changing its XZ position.

  2. #2
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    The problem with turning an object on its side is "which side", since the side varies from model to model, even within official TTS models.

  3. #3
    I kinda agree with this one...

    All you need is a hotkeys rotation .... Q,E rotates around the Y right... so maybe CTRL+Q,E will rotate 90 degrees around the Z instead of the Y. Seams pretty easy fix?
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  4. #4
    Surely 99% of the time each side of the custom figurine is either identical or the mirror image of the other? So it doesn't matter which side you choose. Similarly, for a 3D figurine it's not going to matter either. I'd suggest choosing an arbitrary direction and having it always be the way to goes, so model makers can have some control, but it fundamentally doesn't matter.

    Having said that, I see nothing wrong with having three states to flip through; upright, on-its-side, on-its_side+180. I mean, you could even just treat it like a D6; they increment when you flip them, rotating through every face (i.e. orthogonal axis), in place.
    Last edited by onelivesleft; 07-10-2017 at 09:31 AM.

  5. #5
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    I disagree that the side it would be placed on doesn't matter. I can think of many examples where a "figurine" style model isn't mirrored. For example with Carcasonne, you need to lay meeple down all the time. But laying them on their edge wouldn't be helping anything. And the problem with changing how that flip works now is every single model made up to date has the possibility of needing to be updated because it doesn't use this new flip correctly.

    I'm not against having a simple way to lay things on their side. But I do not think changing figurine flip is the right way to go and there would need to be a solution to the "which side" problem. I don't have any bright ideas myself though

  6. #6
    Are there any games that use the flip mechanic on figures right now? Figurines balancing upside-down?

    Even if there are games that use flip on figurines (seem improbable), updating so that figurines behaved like D6 would be backwards compatible.

  7. #7
    Just remember....not everything that has the Figurine setting will be a Figurine. The ability to have something always orientate to the vertical when you pick it up is pretty handy after all.

    we're in a situation now where there are literally thousands of games in the workshop to keep a weather eye on when a decision is made to go back and alter the behaviour of a long standing mechanic.

    Your probably on sturdier ground in this situation proposing a whole new item class rather than re-jigging an existing one.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MrStump View Post
    I disagree that the side it would be placed on doesn't matter.
    Pretty sure it doesn't matter.

    If the hotkey simply rotated it 90degress on the Z axis, then you could use the normal Q,E on the Y axis rotation that is already in the game to position the figure so it lies down on any side you choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky seven View Post
    we're in a situation now where there are literally thousands of games in the workshop to keep a weather eye on when a decision is made to go back and alter the behaviour of a long standing mechanic.
    yeah backward compatibility is critical imo, that is why a simple additional rotation key would fix this and a host of games without effecting any other games.
    My Boardgame uTube chan - Tragic's Table Top
    BGG Guild of BoardGame uTubers - Tube Tables

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky seven View Post
    Just remember....not everything that has the Figurine setting will be a Figurine. The ability to have something always orientate to the vertical when you pick it up is pretty handy after all.

    we're in a situation now where there are literally thousands of games in the workshop to keep a weather eye on when a decision is made to go back and alter the behaviour of a long standing mechanic.

    Your probably on sturdier ground in this situation proposing a whole new item class rather than re-jigging an existing one.

    Fair point. I do think that the argument still holds for custom figurines (the cardboard cut-out in stands), because they look so daft standing on their head that surely no-one is using flip on them (who wouldn't prefer they lie down).

  10. #10
    I'm with Tragic and do want ctrl+Q/ctrl+E shortcuts to rotate pieces on a different axis.

    Another option would be a toggle when creating a figurine. Something like "Flip figurine sideways" that alters the behavior and is off by default to prevent change to all the mods.

  11. #11
    I like that idea. If it was an option you could even specify the direction.

  12. #12
    Ah ha! We spent 20 minutes last night trying to knock pieces over in Carcasonne and Chess. At least now I know it was not me and it is indeed a horrible weakness in TTS.

  13. #13
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    Hold alt when you rotate to rotate a model around its X axis. The normal rotation axis is Y. This lets you lay a figurine on its size.

    If you need to rotate it wound its Z axis you're out of luck though

  14. #14
    maybe a setting similar to the mouse wheel/q/e rotation - up top is the setting for how many degrees that turns what you are holding. Could make a setting to set how many degrees the object turns when you press F.(90 or 180) So if you wanna lay a figure on it's side/back, then you'd set it to 90.

    though idk if it's possible to detect a key press in a script? maybe could script the object to only turn so far when you press F?

    Also take into account that if you make your own figurine stand, and orient it correctly, then you can use Alt + mouse wheel/q/e to turn it on it's back/face.(like MrStump mentioned)

    another thing to consider if you make your own, is that "Rotation" is done on an objects' origin point, and that's not always by the center of it, depending on how the model is made. Usually is, but not always. so if you make a tile, and put the origin in a corner, then it's going to rotate around that corner and not the center.
    Last edited by TheRaven81; 10-15-2017 at 12:21 PM.

  15. #15
    For that you could just use Scripting Buttons and have a tool that rotates an object how you want it when it's pressed. It's not quite pressing F but it's still keyboard bound which is pretty good.

    You can't read any key presses but there's 10 shortcuts (by default bound to 0-9 on the numpad) that you can access in scripting to trigger scripted functions.

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